True spike an spike rule

[jason stevens]

How many people disagree with these rules on the Eastside. I'm curious because I feel like after a few years of 3 or 4point rules how the effect on the herd would be. I may be wrong but do others think that if they switched it to 3 point min the herd would do better. In my opinion I feel like we are killing off the genes with spikes an letting the big boys die of old age. Someone tell me I'm wrong an tell me why. Today I got sent a picture from a buddy of 6 1x2 an 46 cows. I saw a big bull last year that could barley walk not sure if he was sick or just old. Generally in the area I hunt ill see about 7 to 10 bulls over 5 points but zero true spikes. Just asking if I'm thinking wrong or is there a better way to manage the herds. Thanks for your opinions.

[Bone collector 13]

Their not managing for quality, or hunter success, their management is for escapement because other user groups and predators run rampant

[hunter399]

I'm no elk expert that for sure.
But one thing I do know is ,and this apply to deer,elk,all game animals really.

If you want the herd to grow its all about the cows or females.

As long as there is enough bulls to breed all the cows than the herd grows.
If you think about genes as long as there are cows in the herd that carry that old bulls genes ,then his genes live on.

That's why sometimes it's so important to protect cow,does,females, but when you give out way to many permits or OTC cow tags,poaching,ect,ect, it is possible to erase or completely take out certain genes through female harvest.
Just like humans ,whether you have a son or daughter ,your genes are passed on . They may be more prominent from father to son,but make no mistake your genes are passed on son or daughter makes no difference.

[johnbmyersii]

It's all about money. If the eastside was all open for any bull or 3pt min, there wouldnt be many elk left and they wouldnt make nearly as much money. Special big bull permits make the state hundreds of thousands of dollars every year. Many spikes dont survive the winter anyways and success rate is so low that it doesnt matter if most of them get killed off. Only a few need to make it through to grow big to continue repopulating. At the end of the day, WDFW is out to make money any way they can.

[jason stevens]

Great responses so far thank you. What if we had a say (lol will never happen) an we went no harvesting of cows an straight to a 4 point rule for a minimum of at least 5 years. What do you think would happen?

[jason stevens]

I would truly like to see Karl Blanchard chime in on this.

[HunterStrait]

I personally like the spike only rule and I think it works great in protecting mature breeding bulls. As long as they keep allowing a decent amount of big bull permits.

I disagree with the true spike rule though, and i think all spike only rules should just be switched to being "non-branching elk" to also include forking 2x2 elk.

[johnbmyersii]

Great responses so far thank you. What if we had a say (lol will never happen) an we went no harvesting of cows an straight to a 4 point rule for a minimum of at least 5 years. What do you think would happen?

It would be an absolute slaughter the likes we've never seen in this generation. We'd probably also never see a recovery and have the absolute tanks we have running around these days. It would be fun if they did it and I'd definitely participate but it'd ruin our trophy units

[johnbmyersii]

I disagree with the true spike rule though, and i think all spike only rules should just be switched to being "non-branching elk" to also include forking 2x2 elk.

 

[nwwanderer]

The heredity of antlers is a low % but they have been doing it for a long time, the spike is truly becoming the unicorn.  Selection against spikes makes for fewer and fewer in a population.

[jason stevens]

So when you look at the harvest rates per gmu on the west side at a 3 point minimum they go into the 100s versus 10 or 15 on the east side. They also continue on the west side year buy year. So what I'm hearing so far is that the east side would be a slaughter at a 3 point min. I disagree with that an again only in my opinion. I think if they said no cows allowed to be harvested within 5 years an going to a 3 point minimum  the herd would grow alot.  Now we all know predators an winter kills are a thing but don't you think the numbers would increase.

[HillHound]

I disagree with the rule 100%. When other basically unregulated predators and a certain user group has free reign on the big bulls we are not saving anything. It’s basically Would be the same if I owned 2 acres of property and wanted to save the bucks to grow to maturity. They would obviously be shot on the neighbors property. We want to save these big bulls for breeding or for maybe when we draw a tag in 30 years but the other group  can hunt them year round comes and kills them anyways. So Yep it’s totally about them making money and keep in the other user group happy

[Mtnwalker]

It's about high $$ and low harvest. Sell tags to everybody yet not be a significant drain on the resource. And with the branch antlered tags cut down to what they are now, it's a joke. What I'd really like to know is why we have units on the east side with 11 total branched bull tags yet 75 cow tags...

[jason stevens]

We spend thousands of dollars for what we love to do. Im only asking these questions because I'm curious of what other hunters an huntress think. I'd love to hunt elk an be productive in the harvest but spike only in 30 years of hunting I've gotten 1. I will always go every year because it's a passion but what if I went west an paid the fees to hunt and chased hoof rot bulls.  I know its all about the money in our state but good God if they actually listened to us an gave us a say they could still make money. My personal opinion is everything deer an elk included should be 3 point or better an no females allowed to be harvested except for maybe a couple for youth. All of the opportunities would increase.  An bring back baiting an hounds for predators.

[hunter399]

It's about high $$ and low harvest. Sell tags to everybody yet not be a significant drain on the resource. And with the branch antlered tags cut down to what they are now, it's a joke.

Ding Ding Ding ,BINGO
You just described the whole permit system ,except for female harvest ,cause that does cause a drain on the resource.
But yes big bingo ,that's why in the future WDFW will try to put the whole state on the permit system and due away with OTC anything .Cause everybody will buy in at a chance of drawing yet if they harvest is of no concern.

Think of the spike elk restrictions as a permit drawing.
Your just buying a tag at a chance ,that's all.
Same could be said of the 4pt WT in NE WA a few years ago.
At least with that restriction ,was buying into a chance of a mature deer.
So kinda the same ,but different.